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Lead Magnet Success
In this episode, Juliet Clark and I discuss how to have effective lead magnets.
By listening to this episode you will learn how to successfully convert potential leads into clients.
Welcome to this week’s health coach nation podcast interview with Juliet Clark. And I’m really excited. I had the opportunity to be on Juliet’s awesome podcast. And she helps businesses with their marketing and also with their book. If you want to have a book, right, so, Juliet, I’ll let you kind of introduce yourself what you do. And today we’re going to talk about lead magnets and how the heck do you, you know, nurture your audience. So thanks for being on the show. Well, thanks for having me and I’m excited. This is your first live
Using zoom Yes, exactly. So when I started my publishing company, I’d come from traditional publishing and advertising. And when I started my company, I noticed that the self publishing companies weren’t really helping the business owners that were writing books, build audiences. So back then we had the lead magnet that, you know, everybody was giving out a piece of their genius and in exchange for an email address, and then you write a drip campaign and lead them to a product.
And most people were writing books because that wasn’t working for them. So as part of our audience building tools for books, we created a quiz that actually is based on success principles. So we have a very high take rate. Because people want to find out you know, you’re the guru, why aren’t they getting to where they want to be? And it also has a commitment section. So
When I talk about commitment, we ask them to self assess where they’re at in, are they willing to spend money to learn how to do what we’re going to do with what you teach? Are they 100% committed to solving the problem? And would they set an appointment with you? So based on that, now we have a quiz that is market research, we’re showing potential clients that they need us. And we are pre qualifying them, and getting them into our list.
So now we have a tool that really does connect us to our audience. And the one thing I didn’t mention is based on that commitment section, there are three autoresponders in the background with high, medium and low.
So now you know who in your audience, they’re getting the offer of your calendar, you know, who’s really committed and who will schedule an appointment, who to nurture, and probably that 80% of whoever you’re talking about that will just go in your list because they’ll never take action. So now you have a way to parse all of this and
Lead Magnet Driven
Start talking instead of clicking. I love this. So you set up quizzes for people or you use Well, I know you use them yourself. But is that something that you do for people? Yes. So actually, for most of our authors, when they come in and they bring us the book we listen to, you know, what’s going on? Why did you write this book because not everybody should write a book, or they’ve written a book too soon.
And the one thing we kept hearing over and over is I wrote the book, because my products and services weren’t selling and somebody told me, the book will give me credibility. And that at that point, when we started hearing that over and over, we knew that there needed to be some product validation, and some audience building first because the most successful books already have an audience.
That’s the first thing But the second thing is is most people are not going to make much off those books. It’s those products and services you have. So yes, we do the consulting for it.
So we go and we look at who is the audience? What are the success principles of what you sell. And then we put it together because it has to be put together in a very particular way to elicit the right results from people. So categories and statements, the autoresponder, the commitment levels, and then we build your first one for you.
A Successful Lead Magnet
Very cool. Yeah. So I love this idea. So as a lead magnet, creating a quiz pre qualifies people and gets your list, your email list sorted by you know, what kind of lead are they high priority and interested medium or not so much. And also, so it’s like something that does three jobs in one, it nurtures them because they get to take a quiz and they’re excited about it, and they’ll, you know, get on your email list. It ranks them and it allows you to get market research all the time ongoing, which is great. So when somebody is I’m trying to think about well
Okay, so I, you know, I know that I need to grow my email list. And I like this idea of a quiz. But I also am concerned because, first of all, that just sounds really complex, right? Because a lot of times, all that tech stuff goes over my clients heads. And then number two, um, how do I even promote? I don’t have a huge audience how, who’s going to take my quiz?
What would you say for those two things? So that is such a great question. Because people always ask us, they’ll say, you know, we’ve done this thing with the audience and quizzes and it doesn’t work. And my first answer there is that you haven’t done it correctly. You haven’t motivated them to take it. So right now, the reason we’re so busy is people are doing more Facebook Lives.
So every time you jump on Facebook live, you send people to the quiz. People are doing LinkedIn lives the same thing. YouTube lives. So I just taught you how to do a YouTube Live real quickly.
So you can use them over there. People are on summits now instead of in person. So you literally have people take out their phone you incorporate in your talk and have them take it right there. And then you give them about three minutes to take it because that’s all the longer it should be. And they will take it right then and there.
The cool part about a summit is if you have it set up correctly, you can see who’s taking it there are things coming across your screen while you’re teaching. And you can see who set an appointment who’s taken it you can you can give shout outs and all of that right live while it’s going on. We we started out a lot of people use it from the stage so they’ll incorporate it right into their talk so they can capture the room.
And podcasters we have a lot of podcasters using it as their ads. Nice. That’s very cool. I love that and there’s there’s talk that you mentioned, you get a lot of people coming to you saying hey, you know my products and services weren’t selling
And so I thought I really needed to write a book because it’s going to give me that credibility. Do you think that’s the right thing to do if you’re not selling your products and services? Or what do you think? Yeah, absolutely not. So, um, one of the things that happens is, is, you know, we go into these rooms, and we’re looking to grow our business. And that has been the answer for the last 10 years Oh, write a book.
Chances are, if you’re not marketed well enough for you’re not in front of that right audience with the products and services, your book is going to be another failed product, it’s not going to achieve what you want it to do. So we really recommend that you use the quiz and figure out we can figure out a lot of times from it, the market research in it, are we in front of the wrong audience? Or are we positioning this wrong? And so once you get that fixed, and you’re selling your products and services, and you have a successful track record, that’s the time to write the book because
Consider the Equation
The book comes, becomes a low barrier loss leader in the equation.
Yeah, okay. I love what you said there because I agree, I think it’s something where you can’t. It’s It’s like when people say, Oh yeah, I really need to scale this business. And yet, they’re what they’re selling isn’t even scalable because either the model isn’t scalable, or it’s not even selling enough to the point where they need to sell scale. They just think it sounds cool.
So I think the book is a shiny object. And and we talk about shiny object syndrome here and the health coach nation community because I see so many people thinking, oh, there’s this new, like this quiz. I need this quiz right now. And yet, they don’t even know what they sell or offer or whatever. Like there’s an order and there’s a process to creating, you’re building your business. And you have to make sure you’re not going for all the shiny objects in the wrong timing in the wrong order. Because otherwise, you’re going to be like what you said, you’re going to just keep making products that don’t work or you’re just going to keep
What are You or Your Lead Magnets Accomplishing?
Going down rabbit holes and never really accomplishing anything. So I love this idea that, you know, I do agree that books do create credibility books can work great if you have an audience. Books are great if you want to be a speaker, because I’ve talked to people who said, Oh yeah, I didn’t have a book. And then I wrote a book. And I got I started getting paid more for speaking gigs. You know, people just suddenly saw me differently. And it’s so interesting to me.
And I’ve noticed this too, whenever I’ve done press, like if I’ve, if I’ve gotten in a magazine or something. To me, that doesn’t seem that cool. But for some reason, when you share it on social media, people are like, oh, like, all of a sudden, they see you in a different light. It’s very strange.
So I do think there’s something to it, but when would be the what would be the right reasons to write a book or create a book. So before you go there, I just want
To say, you’re talking about shiny and just get shiny object. Also, the other thing is magic bullet. None of these things are the magic bullet. They all work together on it. And a lot of people you know, that’s what they get into this thing. Well, now I have the book. So I’m going to take off. Now I have my courses. So now I’m going to take off and it’s all integrated in there.
The Right Timing
So the right time for a book. I’m going to give you example, hold on. I just wrote pitch slapped. So I have had it I just, I just released it. Thank you. I was a mystery writer. For probably four or five years, I had some best selling mystery novels. And then I started the publishing company. Now, that wouldn’t have been the time to write a book right then because I didn’t have a track record with the products in my company. I didn’t have testimonials. I didn’t have a product.
is down that really made sense? So two years ago, I said, Okay, it took me two years, which is really pathetic. But two years ago, I said, you know, it’s about time I wrote a book about this. And what I see in the marketplace, that was the right time, because when I launched that I had a lot of people who couldn’t afford me in the past who bought the book. So that’s really what you want to do is you have that audience that’s going to be able to afford you that loves you. And then you have some people that are maybe interested.
And the book is more of a let’s see if you can do it yourself, which we all know they can’t do it without you. But it’s something you can sell and then people realize they can’t and they will get more interested in investing in those bigger things.
From a Lead Magnet to an Audience and Books
Very well said totally. And when you say you kind of want to have an audience before you write a book, the best the books that do the best are people who have an audience define what that means how big of an audience
would you say? Well, it’s not really how big it is, it’s what kind of quality is in it. So you and I’ve been around a little while we know that, you know, we’d have friends out there at one time, I had a 7500 person list, and I got rid of 5000 of them because they weren’t really engaged. So your list size is not as important as the engagement in it. Are they really stepping up an opening are? Have you developed relationships with them? And by that, I mean, have you had conversations with them.
So it doesn’t really matter how big we can put someone on a bestseller list with 100 really engaged people purchasing. You know, the Amazon bestseller list. So it just depends on the quality of your audience more than anything, and the quality of your power partners because a lot of times when we launch a book, we use your power partners as well. Sweet. Well, I want to go into power partners in just a second but I also
I want to say I completely agree. Because when it comes to selling high ticket coaching packages, I tell my clients the same thing. You don’t need to have thousands and thousands of followers, you need to have deeper relationships with some ideal clients. Right? So, um, I think that that’s a really good point. And then when you say power partners
Tell me more about what that is and what that means. So, these are people who they don’t do the same thing you do, but they have similar products and services that are complementary. So I’ll give you an example. I hold on Sorry about that. I thought I had that turned out.
So I I have some power partners. I jen koken is she’s teaches imposter syndrome gets rid of imposter syndrome. Almost every single one of my book people when we’re in launch, they all of a sudden freak out. Nobody’s gonna buy it. Nobody’s gonna look at me. They’re gonna find out about fraud. So she’s a great power partner for me because she can send these things out to her list. I can reach
For people to her, I have another I have a writing coach that I work with that refers me a lot of work. Her audience is perfect, because they’re not thinking they’re in the writing phase. They’re not thinking about audience building when they should be. They are not thinking about how they’re going to publish. They’re not thinking of what they’re going to do after they publish.
So it’s those people who have those complimentary products and services where you can refer business and their list will be interested in what you have to offer. Yeah, I love that collaboration partners and really want to be able to have a referral network and same thing, they email your list.
Maybe when you have a big launch of your book, and vice versa. You do the same for them. What are some ways you How does somebody go about saying, Hey, I’m so and so want to be partners? Like how do you go about that? You know, I’m part of a group called the dames and it’s six and seven figure women entrepreneurs and we collaborate on
Lot and basically like you and I did a couple weeks ago, we jumped on a call, we talked about what we did. And then if it sounds like something that we could share with our audiences, we do a few test runs, all come and do some shows in their group. They’ll come and do some in mind. And if it all resonates, and it seems good, then we’ll we’ll plan on, you know, promoting our next launches. So it’s really all about making sure number one that you have a good relationship with this person.
Number two, have a contract, please because the contract we’ll get, we’ll keep you out of trouble later. Have a good launch strategy. So have something that makes sense don’t do it really Helter Skelter because you’re not serving you or them. And I think that’s a win win for everybody. Yeah, completely. I love it. And I love the idea about making sure you have a contract because it is so true. Sometimes you just, you know, you got to make things official and and plan
ahead with the launch because that’s such a disservice to your partner if you’re just like, hey, by the way, it’s next week. Here’s Here we go. Yeah. Notice they have their own things planned. So good, good advice. And tell me more about pitch slapping your your book.
I’m sort of a smart alec and I cave. I kept seeing things over and over inside of the coaching community. So one of the things was that I used to be I used to coach for the joint venture inner circle, and we were all about cliques and funnels, and I felt like that wasn’t really a relationship coming from the ad world and working on Mattel and Nissan and some billion dollar accounts. Like you have to have a relationship. And so when we developed the quiz, people were loving it because it drives you to conversations. If you’re highly committed, then you’re going to have a conversation with that person more than likely. So pitch slapped for
me was when I went to an event. And I talked to Haley for five minutes and Haley started pitching me her product. Just enough. I’m her ideal client. She doesn’t know who I am. Ha, not actually me though. Yeah, no, not actually Haley. But I just using Haley as an example. So we’ve talked about five minutes. And I literally feel like you have slimed me with your product.
And I’m probably like, trying to figure out how to get away because it doesn’t interest me. I wasn’t your person. But you did it anyway. So I kind of called that pitch slapping. You just, you aren’t talking to the right people. So I talk a little bit about you know, how do you position this and how do you do it in a way and and I go a lot go into about the quizzes quite a bit about, you know, capturing your audience with the quiz and finding out where they’re struggling and if they really are your people before you go into a big pitch. So that’s what it’s all about. You to please
said, and we just talked about this in my zero to hero coach program about how it’s a lot easier to get on strategy calls or calls in general, even if it’s not a sales call. But if it’s an intro call, even with your potential clients, after you’ve already given them a lead magnet or a nurture sequence or something that nurtures them and, and gives them value first, versus I think a lot of times people just go straight in for the kill for the main course, you know, just like you said, and for a call with these expectations, and they’re meeting somebody for the first time and what what they don’t realize is there’s touchpoints and there’s discovery, like you have to see if this person even isn’t fit just like you said.
A Key in Sales
So I think the number one key in sales is to not go at at go after it as you know, who’s who’s gonna be my next customer and and got to get the pitch out, but instead go at it from who, like who can I help what
For what what is somebody struggling with Canada? Is there any way I can support them with that, and making sure you’re giving value first, just like you do with the lead magnet. So lead magnets make your job much easier later. And that’s also it’s a touch point. It builds a relationship. So I highly recommend anybody listening and watching if you don’t already have lead magnets for different topics. It’s a really good practice to get into and and set up or even if you have a quiz, like Juliette recommends, that’s another great way to to be going in your business.
Now, what about when you wrote a book? Did you notice? How did you leverage that? So you’re like, Okay, I’m writing pitch slap. I’m gonna give this to everybody who maybe can’t afford to work with me long term, or maybe who’s been hesitant about working with me because I want them to see my method. I want them to get a taste. What happened from there? So a couple things when we when we launch a book
Lead Magnet Methods
We take people from the quiz where they can buy a program product or service and maybe even the book and pre sale. So we take we build the audience with the quiz. Then we get the book while we’re getting the book published, we run a bestseller campaign and presale and that’s where you capture those people that may be on your list or Facebook or those other places who’ve been kind of taking a look at you, but really haven’t been, you know, like, I can’t I can’t afford her. I don’t want to talk to her.
So that’s where you can capture those people. And then after we run that best seller campaign, I will tell you most indie authors, they sell less than 100 books and they will never sell another book after that bestseller campaign. It just drops off and they don’t do anything. So from there we go into the free shipping book where people can get the book for quote, free, you know buy it, get it free pay shipping, but then they you can upsell them in
To a small pro product or service, so a 90 797 $497, something that gives them a lot of value and then build a relationship from there. So we keep it going not only to sell the books, but to bring those people nurture those people into other products and services from their smart. Yeah, I’ve definitely been that person who buys the free book, right, the free shipping. Yep, bonuses and all of that.
Examples to Excellence
To give you an example, one of one of our clients, Merrill Chandler gave me his book over a year ago, or almost a year ago, we still don’t have it on Amazon and Barnes and Noble because he chose to do the free shipping. He did the quiz. And he did the free shipping funnel first so he can drive traffic to his workshops, and he has sold over 2000 copies, just in the free shipping. Yeah. So Wow, that’s amazing. Congrats. Yeah. And how k
Being a Best Seller
what’s considered like New York Times bestselling? author? I’m just curious, like, how many books is that? How does that even work? You have to sell a lot of books. There are very few self published books that will get the exposure to do that. I can think of maybe three total. Well, that was the series The whole. What was that one with the SNM? I know, the David look at you like Tell me about that.
Oh, I know. Oh, 50 Shades of Grey. Right? Yeah. 50 Shades of Grey was a rare one that did that. And I have the funniest story about that. I was actually at a soccer game. And I was listening to it. And I noticed nothing. Mom’s not listening to it at a soccer. Well, yeah, cuz you can watch the game and look, and but none of the moms were clapping and I’m like, What the heck is going on? And I’m looking and they’re all got their iPads and I look at them and I go, how many of you are reading 50 Shades of Grey? And they’re all like oh,
None of us was watching our kids, except me.
So anyway, I you have to have some pretty extraordinary publicity and numbers, I would say, probably 30,000 to 50,000 copies and you can’t have a bulk purchase because they will take it out. Meaning that, let’s say, like I just heard recently when Donald Trump Jr. released his book, like a conservative organization bought 10,000 copies. So they took those out of his numbers. It has to be sales and you have to do that in a week. So it’s a very high number. People are more self published books would be more likely to reach a USA Today or Wall Street Journal. I do have a friend who’s a romance novelist who has made the the USA Today a couple times. Nice. Wow. Well, she needs to read 50 Shades of Grey.
shall be the next one on she writes.
I want to I don’t know if you know who Janet evanovich is, she’s a huge mystery writer. And I read a biography about her one time, and she used to be a rose romance novelist, and she said that she quit writing romance because she ran out of positions. So there you have it. Oh my gosh, that’s funny. Okay, so anyways, so got it, we want to be and do you What’s your thoughts? What’s the advantages of being self published versus going to a publishing and obviously, to go to a publisher, you probably need a certain criteria need to meet a certain criteria. So I guess what are the pros and cons.
So self publishing, you will be published much much faster. You have total control over your book, you have total control over everything in it so you can turn around and you know, do other things with it. You can make it into pretty much anything you want because you own the rights with traditional publishing.
You have to have an audience already built, when you go to them, you have to approve that you have a very large engaged audience, my understanding is at least 10,000. And the reason for that is is they want to know it doesn’t matter how good your book is, they want to know that they’re going to make money from your book. Also, you lose control of the book, you lose, right, the rights of the book.
So that might mean that instead of you reading your book, that they might hire somebody to read your book for an audible. And they might make some changes to make it more mass mass media appropriate. So it’s a very, it’s very, very difficult to first of all, have a book good enough for traditional bubble publisher to take it, but then you have to prove you have the audience. So you better have been building an audience for quite a while. Now. I’m glad that you brought that up because there are a lot of really bad self publishing contracts out there and one of my newer clients, just
Lead Magnets to Books
Brought me one that actually said that, that they would Self Publish her book, they would publish her book that she had to give them 30% of her products and services sale. Oh, and for her, she makes about 180,000 a year. So imagine giving somebody $60,000 to publish your book. So you have to really look and make sure have somebody look it over to make sure that the contract makes sense, and that it’s a win win for you as well. Yeah, for sure. Okay. And as far as being an entrepreneur and your whole journey with marketing, I would love to hear what are some of the biggest either mistakes you’ve made, or you’ve you’ve had to correct for clients who come to you. So I’ll be transparent. I’ve made like every mistake you can. Um, I think my biggest one was
probably back in 2014 2015.
The Funnel Craze for a Lead Magnet
I got on the funnel craze, and that I was going to have these collaborative partners. And I just I did it for about a year, year and a half with webinars, and it was doing okay. But I realized that I wasn’t getting the personal interaction. So I really had to change it up to build personal relationships. Now, fast forward to 2017 2018 when people stopped showing up for webinars, that was really valuable because I created my own way to do this earlier. But I think that was a huge mistake, because back then people were clicking on $2,000 items, but
they were really getting ripped off in a lot of areas and they were beginning by 2016 2017. They were beginning to realize that that model wasn’t getting them anywhere. So
it was a huge mistake. I invested a lot of money in it, a lot of Facebook ads, all sorts of stuff. That I wish I wish I could get that money back
Yeah, yeah, I hear you. I’ve gone down rabbit holes like that and and sometimes things. I’m all about doing what works until it doesn’t. You just have to be adaptable, adaptable. Sorry, I ran away I had to turn off. Of course she.
And you know, Haley, it’s funny because we’re seeing a lot of people during COVID having to redo what they were doing before. I have a Monday Marketing Show with Tracy hazard and the one thing we have observed is the people that were online before are doing really, really well. And the people that weren’t are sort of floundering because you don’t learn overnight over you don’t learn online marketing overnight. Yep, I would say the same thing. I am so pleasantly surprised and blessed to be to have already been established in the online space and be
like just I’m so thankful
Now, there’s also a quote by Warren Buffett that still scares me because I feel like I have so many things so many gaps in my business that I need to fill in it says that you you find out who’s been swimming when the tide goes out, you find out who’s been swimming naked. And I feel like that’s what happened with COVID I feel like and, and businesses who are local and all that, and nobody could have guessed that this was going to happen. But you do have to think like, I think about what if the whole internet crashes like I would?
What would I I don’t have anybody’s phone number like I mean, I do but not my entire group and list and all that. Like I think about weird stuff like that. And actually one great book, I’d highly recommend to all the listeners is the road to less stupid by Keith Cunningham. Oh, that’s such an amazing book. Yes. Right. He thinking kind of. I mean, he’s, I’m very optimistic. However, he gets me thinking about like, what
case scenario and I’m like, Oh, no, I am not prepared.
So, um, I think it’s an important point that we’ve learned in 2020 is you do have to always be thinking ahead, you do have to be prepared for the worst, almost. So what about some of the best things you’ve done in your business? What happened? Like things were like, Oh, my gosh, I made the right move on that. Thank Gosh. Um, I think so one of them was that when we went to a group program with the quiz,
I sold, I used to have a down like a do it yourself. And I sold over 80 of them the stage in 2018. I had an event in San Diego, and we followed up with those people. And it was actually a really good thing we did because we noticed, believe it or not, people paid almost $1,000 for it. Over half of them didn’t open it. They never even opened the program. So we got in touch with all those people who did and started getting feedback. Like what
Don’t Ignore the Opportunities
Did you think, and a lot of people said it would have been so great if you could have built this for us? It was, would have been so great if you could have, you know, had a group program and taught us and worked alongside of us. And we actually that I think that was the first time we ever really went out and got feedback. And it was so amazing because we were able to go back and say, Hey, for another 2500 How about we do that group program and people were excited about it, and I never really, I never really wanted to do anything like that.
So I think it was a really and I don’t even know where it came from. I just decided one day, I looked at it and I said half of these people didn’t even open it. We need to find out why. Yeah, so I think that that curiosity was a really good thing. Yeah, some of your best lessons will come from the feedback from your audience, but also from your weaknesses or, or things that you realize didn’t work. Like when you saw that people weren’t completing it. You were like, okay, there’s, there’s, there’s a gap here. And so you’ve learned to get the feedback and you
adapted, which is awesome. So, Juliet, what is your podcast called? Where can everybody find you? And tell us a little bit about how they can connect with you. So my, my podcast is called promote profit publish. And it’s for anybody who is thinking about a book, we we interview a lot of entrepreneurs, so don’t just limit it to a book because it has a lot of elements to it for entrepreneurs. You can find me at Juliet at super brand publishing.com or over on LinkedIn, Juliet Dylan Clark, and I’d love to have you guys go take a quiz and just try one out. You can try one of them at www lead logic quiz.com and see how it’s structured. Awesome. And my last question, we’ll put all that in the show notes, everybody listening.
But my last question is what right now in the current phase of business, you’re in, what’s been up
big aha moment or lesson or focus for you right now.
I think that, um, well, first of all back in March, like, you know, we had that week that nobody did business, everybody was in shop. And I think that I had I had three or four people in one week right after that come and get a quiz. It was like, Yes, this is the right time to go out and say, hey, are those lead magnets working for you? And are we just had the three best months we’ve ever had. So I think it was just that aha, that, you know, something, something big just happened and it’s gonna be great for my business. Yes. Well, I love hearing that and congratulations. And everybody check her out. Thank you so much for coming on today. Thank you for having me.
About Juliet Clark
Juliet Clark is Founder of Super Brand Publishing. She assists her clients with the perfect, sustainable marketing strategy for them, their business, and their book. Juliet believes that, “overnight success can lead to overnight irrelevance!” She also believes that, “the key to longevity lies in putting the right steps in the right order. Promote. Profit. Publish.”
- Complimentary Business Consult
- Health Coach Nation: Marketing, Business, & Mindset for Health Coaches
Find Juliet on Social Media: LinkedIn