Introducing Mia Kercher
In this episode, Mia Kercher and I discuss how to create compelling content.
By listening to this episode you will learn how to create content that is informative and interesting.
Hi, Hey, hello. Hello. Hello, welcome. Thank you. Nice to be here. Nice to have you. And what I would love to start with is what got you into copywriting and how it you know what you do and how it’s changed people’s lives? Because writing is very powerful. Yes, it is very powerful. It makes a big difference. So I got into copywriting because well, I was just always a writer, I wrote fiction, I wrote poetry, all that stuff. And then at one point I was traveling throughout Europe, like did a two year backpacking trip, just living off of savings.
Then I ended up in Serbia and had just spent all my money. And I was like, I need to do something to make money fast. So I posted in a local Facebook group is anyone hiring and a couple of copywriting agency owners contacted me, I started freelancing for them. And I realized, okay, this is the perfect way for me to do what I love, which is writing and be able to help people and make money doing it. So that’s really got what got me started, in terms of how it changes people’s lives.
Essentially, it’s like completely turning around somebody’s business. So for one of the just most basic examples that I give is I had someone who was selling a children’s book, for example. And she had written on her sales page. You know, the book is about this, I do this, I do this. And I just told her, let me just show you one sentence how it can make a huge difference. And I showed her how if she would just say
are you sick of your kids being on the TV all the time? Do you wish they would read more often, check out this book, this will teach your kids about animals and nature teach them to appreciate and they’ll spend less time on the TV. And she was amazed because she couldn’t even believe it how much that automatically transformed something from just here’s a cool project I’m doing to this is gonna change your life. So that’s kind of the example that I give to show you how powerful copywriting really is and your business completely agree. I have gotten to test so many different questions and headlines and things throughout the years in my facebook group and with my email list and doing emails for clients and outreach for clients. And you know, it’s so interesting how just
One question or one bullet point change can make such a big difference. So I love him also, what a story. It sounds like, you have entrepreneurial spirit, I love it. Um, so what would you tell somebody, you know, what’s the first steps to being able to have a really killer sentence a really killer copy?
I think the first step is, is knowing what what the people reading it need to hear. So essentially, you can write things that are so creative and so clever and so concise. But they’re really not going to do any good unless it’s actually what that person needs to hear. So the first step would be doing that market research and asking the right questions and getting people to you kind of draw out of them what it is they’re really needing or desiring or hating or whatever it is.
And then that would be the first step is just knowing what they need to hear. Then from there, it’s a matter of communicating that with them in the right way. Right, and to know what they need to hear, you need to hear what they’re saying. And one of the ask my clients sometimes like, they’ll be like, Oh, you know, I want to help women find their divine feminine inner goddess, and I’m like, so do people come to you and say, like, Hey, Hey, girl, I am looking for my divine feminine.
And I know, they say exactly, a very different, right. So and there’s a difference between maybe, you know, internally, they need to find their divine inner goddess. And through coaching, you’re going to help them do that on the back end. But in the front end, in your marketing, you want to market what they want. And how in their language and how they speak about it. So I love what you said there. And and the research will really help you learn what kind of problems they have. Now, what if somebody is like, I don’t have anybody to talk to. And I don’t really know which niche I want to pick? What What do you suggest when it comes to if they need to get clarity first on what they even want to say.
So that is a really important thing, too. And I had someone come to me recently, who is a pretty solid copywriter. But he just didn’t know who he wanted to do copywriting for. So that was bringing a lot of problems. And for that, I would recommend if you if you can’t figure it out talking to a business coach. Or taking a course you know if you’re on a budget or something like that, because that is it’s the pre step to market research. It’s like the before market research stuff, it is just really important.
And if you don’t know who you need to talk to, then you end up asking all these questions to all these different people. And then even if you get a bunch of research a bunch of helpful comments, they’re not going to be helpful in the end. Because you’re talking to you know, a mom here, single bachelor here.
You’re not gonna sell to anybody different pain points, different problems, different life. Yeah. So so that’s the other thing is like, what I talked to a lot of people who are like, but I can help everybody with all their pain points. I can help with balance. I can help with relationships. Or, I can help with weight loss. I’m a life coach, I can do it all. And I can help everybody with everything. So that to me, I say, Well, you could have different landing pages for each different group. And not just or you got to pick something to start with. Would you agree with that, that it’s important to niche down rather than try to speak to everybody?
Yes, I would. Because, like you said, You need to be able to speak the people’s language. So if you’re just saying you’re a life coach, well, that could mean so many things. Honestly, a life coach can help people with so many things. So even though you, you can and are equipped to help people with so many things, the people who are coming onto your page are not going to particularly identify with it. So if you for example, you talk about helping people organize their lives, so that they can feel more mentally healthy and be able to, let’s say save money and travel more.
That’s okay, that’s an okay example but whatever. But see there you have somebody who stumbles across your page. And they’re like, oh, my, you know, my life is a mess. I’m running here, I’m running there. I have things you know, all through my house. I don’t know how to save money. Or, I never get to travel. And all of a sudden they realize this is something that you can help me with. But if they just see that you’re a life coach, it’s like, oh, that’s nice, a life coach. And they move on because they don’t see that specific thing.
That applies to them that’s bothering them that they can have fixed. Right might. Totally, it’s easy to glance through something that’s general. You know, it’s versus speaking to, like, Oh, my God, I feel called out right now with this. Yes.
Much easier. Ah, so tell me a little bit about some. So okay, we need to the first step is to get clear on obviously. Who you want to serve, what their pain points are, get that market research. Now, what about creating a compelling offer for the copy? So in other words, or, or call to action? Because something that I, even after you get that market research, rather than just saying, I coach you on these things, you know, or comment below for more information? Like how can we make that part a little bit more? juicy?
Yeah, that’s a great thing to point out. And a great question. So. So there’s, there’s kind of different layers. It’s like, when you get into the pool, you get into the shallow end, and it keeps getting deeper and deeper and deeper. As you, you know, go towards the other side of the swimming pool. And what you want to do is not be there on the shallow end, when you’re calling someone to action or talking about your offer. So shallow, and things are things like, I’ll help you grow your business, for example.
That’s so General, everybody wants to grow their business, everyone has a different idea of how that’s gonna happen. But what you can do to get on the deep end is, again, with that market research and talking to people and find out what they’re really going through, like, What does growing their business look like for them? Does that mean making X amount of money per month? Does that look like X amount of free time per month? Or, does that look like hiring X amount of employees per month. So these are just a few examples.
But these are the ways that you can really find out what people actually want. Really get below the surface and find out what is going on in their lives. And then once you can formulate your offer to say, I, you know, work with me, and I can help you grow your business to the point where you’re making 5k months. And you’re able to outsource your tasks so that you don’t have to do everything on your own. These are the kinds of things that that are really going on in people’s lives that they really want.
And that’s what’s going to be an irresistible offer. That’s when someone says, Yeah, that is me. And that’s what I need. Yeah, and, and yeah. With a call to action, it’s it’s similar, you know. Reiterate what people want, if you’re promising, that they can outsource, you know, their social media, or tasks they don’t like to do or something.
Say, are you ready to be done doing all of this yourself and staying up 24, seven, to work? And ready to have that freedom, then, you know, then the call to action? Comment below or send me a message. So that’s what makes a specific call to action. Love it. And I’ve been guilty of being general sometimes because as you know, sometimes, and I always will say, obviously, it’s important to get out there first, and then you can start to perfect your copy. The beginning might not be that beautiful, but I also know that I could be better about like, being very specific about the end results. And, and sometimes I just get a little lazy or I need to hire somebody like you. Right? here’s, here’s the point I was gonna make is
that, when you when you make it specific to the end goal or dream that they want, I think you’re right, that that’s so much more powerful. And what I’d love to ask you is how do we evoke? Because some of the things you were saying. Like more freedom and and without staying up 24 seven without working all the time? How do we evoke more feelings and emotion and like that in our copy?
Yeah, that’s a great question, too. So um, a great way is, again, I always go back to the market research, because you can be really, like I said, really creative. You can have all these descriptive words and describe the feelings but if they’re not the feelings that your people are actually having, then that’s not going to be powerful. So again, it’s part of that market research asking people how would you feel if you had this
Very simple question, but a lot of people forget about it. A lot of people don’t ask it. So that’s that’s like, you know, that’s a great opportunity to get really specific too, because people will tell you, oh, it would, you know, I would have so much more time with my kids, I wouldn’t feel guilty for being gone all the time. And there you go, that’s automatically a feeling they’re feeling guilty.
So you can talk to them about, you know, that feeling of guilt doesn’t have to be there. So it’s, it really is a matter of listening. And it’s a matter of like, what are people say to you in the DMS? What are people commenting, maybe not even just on your profile on other people’s, there’s so many places you can look, but it’s really a matter of being super aware and really listening when people say things, right?
Yeah, not mean, I would even love to ask our our viewers right now, if they want to put in the comments, how would you feel if you felt like, clients came easy, you’re making more money in your business? You know, that kind of thing. And I think that me out when it comes to a call to action, I want to go back to that in a minute.
So like, let’s say in our content, we’re now we’re using more descriptive words, we’re focusing on the feelings, not just the benefits or features of our program, we’re maybe sharing our story, and how can you give me some examples of bad call to actions versus Good call to actions. And let’s say our goal is to get clients or to get on a phone call, or it could be anything, it could be sign up for my email list, whatever you want to make it, but let’s do some examples.
Yeah, definitely. So a bad call to action would be, I would say either being too sleazy, too pushy. salesy or too weak. So a sleazy example would be when you see this giant yellow button flashing at you, and it says buy now, or you’ll lose everything, where there’s kind of that like threat afterwards. And I actually worked in an agency where we had to write copy like this, when I first started and I hated it, I felt like a terrible person, because I was
like, your business is gonna fail, and it’s not gonna fail. The fact is, it just doesn’t work. It’s too pushy. And it honestly takes away people’s intelligence, like, their business is not going to fail just because they miss this one offer.
So that would be the the to sleazy spectrum. And then on the other end of the line would be weak, which would be
kind of patting the word. So let’s say your call to action is that you want people to schedule a call with you. So
if you if instead of being very direct, and saying, if you want this, click the link in my bio and schedule a call, that’s very direct, a bad example would be, give this some thought, if it feels like it resonates with you, if that would be attractive to you. If that sounds good to you, then go ahead and go to the link in my bio, I’m exaggerating. But some people do actually do this because they’re afraid of being that pushy person, right? So they add in all this padding these
in linguistics, they call them hedges, which is where you’re not exactly sure of yourself. So you add in some extra words to
help it land softer. wishy washy. Oh, is what I call it. Yes. You might wanna talk. Maybe, but Oh, yes, exactly. Yeah, right. So yeah. That, I glad you highlighted that, because I do see it all the time. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, to me, I think it’s a favor when people are direct and clear, like when they’re like, what to do and tell me the next step. And I don’t need to read a monologue and just like, you know, that’s, that’s like a service to me not like, Oh, my God, you’re being too direct. Right. So here’s the other thing.
I think there’s different stuff like different people out there that you need to speak to so like some people are super visual. Some people are super emotion space. Some people are super logical. And one of the problems I’ve had when I when it comes to like, I’ve gotten feedback on my BIOS, or I’ve gotten feedback on
Facebook and stuff that like I’m very like, practical, logical. Like my friends told me if I was a shoe, I would be
crock because they’re practically offensive to me.
Like, I don’t like to add a lot of like mental drama, I don’t share. I’m not like a very private person. So it’s been hard for me as business owner. And as in this industry where it’s like you have to like, like, be vulnerable and like, show up without makeup on and like, just be like, and that doesn’t feel authentic to me, because that’s how I am. So I’ve really struggled to like, how do I be really vulnerable in my copy? So what would you say to people? And also, there’s different styles out there, not everybody needs that, like, I don’t want to read, I want to read like practical tips that I use today. Right? So like, how do I match the different styles and things out there? and be more vulnerable to and our copy? So I guess that’s two different questions.
You Yeah, that is a really good question. Um, I, first of all, I would say that being authentic does not necessarily mean sharing private details of your life, or showing a real picture of yourself when you just woke up, that doesn’t necessarily have to be authentic. Um, one, one thing that really helps is when you just express your opinions, that’s something a lot of people don’t do enough, where it’s like, you’re in this industry, and you’re there every single day talking about it, reading other people in the industry, you’ve got opinions, you 100% have opinions. So share them, that’s a great way to show your personality.
Another way is in developing a brand voice that is really true to you. So when I first started, I thought that I had to speak in the typical online business person speech, like, Okay, great, so much, or I can’t even say it great. Thank you so much. Yeah, it’s really not me. And that’s not how I talk. And so I realized, you know, I can be more casual and, and just say, you know, thanks without an exclamation point, or these things seem small, but they do make a big difference. So another example of this would be, are you using a lot of emojis? Does that feel like you? Or do you just feel like you need to put them in there to seem like a more friendly person?
These, these are just a couple small examples.
being authentic doesn’t necessarily mean oversharing is what I’m saying. So being authentic is about letting people see your personality in what you write. So that can be in the jokes that you tell or the way that you phrase your sentences. Do you sound formal? Or do you sound like yourself?
You know, like I said, are you sharing your opinions? Are you speaking about things that you are interested in? You know, maybe you’re interested in cycling? Are you talking about cycling? Do you kind of mix that into your content? Those are ways that are not super personal, that you can be authentic in the way you write and show your personality? Yeah, no, I love that. And now what about when it comes to, like appealing to the different styles and I know, this might not be really like, a, like, visual examples versus analogies versus a store, like a story versus what how do we need suggestions on how do you balance that are some ideas about how you can incorporate certain things?
Sure. So So one thing is, not everyone is the same, but many audiences tend to be pretty similar. So I work with coaches, which is a very broad, there’s so many different kinds of coaches. And, and personally, my style is very direct and to the point, and so I stay true to myself, and I stay very direct and to the point, I’ve had clients who are not that way. I have a client who’s just very soft and kind and her clients love her for that they love her for her flowing personality.
And she’s not like that, but what I said still resonates with her. So she was still she still signed on with me even though my style is different than hers. Um, so, you know, depending on what you do, like as a coach, you’re not doing a service for people like I’m actually supposed to be writing and sounding like them when I write their copy. But as a coach, you don’t need to sound like your clients you need to sound like yourself.
People do need to be able to get to know you because it’s quite a personal connection between a coach and their client. But essentially, like, as far as that goes, I would say be true to yourself.
When it comes to different types of stylistic things like storytelling, or making an analogy or something, I would say just mix it up as much as possible. You know, don’t make every everything sound like a story, you know, every email you send out, don’t make it a story, but one, make it a story. The next one, make it top tips, you know, just just try to mix it up stylistically.
Yeah, if that answers your question, oh, yeah, totally does. And for those of you listening who want to switch up your style, like you want to do some stories, you want to do some educational, testimonials, etc, I have a little bit of a, I have a content roadmap. It goes through just the different types that you can choose from. And you can decide how frequently you want to do each but summarizes them. So if you’re curious about that, you can just DM me content roadmap, I should have, I should have had a landing page for this, but I don’t I’ve just been manually setting it up.
Like that. But, um, if I did I do a wishy washy thing if you’d like that.
But you know, anyways, okay, so good. Good stuff. Me, I like that. You’re just saying, you know what, Be true to yourself and switch it up a little bit. But if you’re not, you don’t have to be your client to be able to resonate with your client. Um, so now, what are some of the biggest aside from wishy washy language and not knowing your clients pain points? What are some of the biggest copywriting mistakes you see, either for landing pages or for social media posts or things like that?
Sure. So I would say, um, let’s see. So for for landing pages, we’ll just say I would say the biggest mistake is not not knowing how to structure it not having a framework that you want to put it in. You you, can tell when somebody is like, okay, now I’m going to put the pain points in and then down here, I’m going to put, you know, the clients ultimate transformation. And here, I’m going to put some testimonials without a structure. copywriting is kind of like just a tip here, a tip there, it needs a structure. So I would say the main mistake that I see in landing pages or sales pages is not having that structure.
Another thing is not just not doing enough market research. So sometimes I’ll take a look at a coaches sales page. And I’ll say, you know, where did this come from? And, and it didn’t actually come from a client. So they don’t actually know if that’s a pain point. I think one thing that coaches do is they absorb what each other is doing, and then they’ll put that into their copy.
The Point of Pain Points
Okay, yeah. So for example, one that I see a lot is, for mindset coaches, or confidence coaches to use this pain point, you’re wondering if you’re afraid that people are going to find you out. And the idea there is like, that you. You don’t think you’re good at what you’re doing. And so you’re worried that people are gonna find out that you’re not good at what you’re doing. But I see this in so many coaches, marketing copy, and I’m like, you know, I could use a mindset coach, but I don’t think that, or a lot of times, people will just focus on confidence. And I’m like, still, I could use a mindset coach, but confidence isn’t my problem. So right, it’s, so I see a lot of the times people are there.
They’re just kind of doing one thing, and they’re doing what each other does, and they’re not actually going and doing the market research. And ultimately, that’s the key to successful copy. Love that. Yeah. And you can’t skip that, that that’s, I think, what you’re saying is they kind of wing it or see what other people are doing. And yes, and we don’t know if the other people in your industry did market research or they’re winging it, right. Yes. Right. So I love that you said that. And one thing I heard this morning from actually my client, and I want to read it to everybody because it’s so good. It and I can’t remember I think he said it’s from somebody named Blair and Rob
If anybody’s seeing the replay and knows who this is from, please comment, I don’t know who it’s from. But it’s, um, you want to when it comes to like your, your, your content or your business, in coaching, you want to encourage their dreams. And when referring to your ideal client, encourage their dreams, justify their failures, relay their fears, confirm their suspicions, and help them throw rocks at their enemies or at the enemies along I like. And I just love that because I think highlights what we’re trying to do and copy which is like, we know they have hesitations with working with us, we need to highlight those, we can’t just pretend that they’re not there. Right?
We need to know what they truly want at the end of the day, and what we’re marketing and make sure that’s aligned. The failures like, of course, people are gonna worry that they’ve tried everything and your thing’s not gonna work for them. You know, that kind of thing. So I just thought that was so good. And I said, it’s somebody named Blair. I don’t know. But I’ll have to look after this. Give credit. But it’s just I love that I wrote it down. Because what are your thoughts on that? Yeah, yeah, you’ll have to send it. That is good.
What are The Struggles of Your Audience?
Cool. Okay. So anything else you would give advice to our coaches and consultants, if they let’s say that they’re just right now focused on social media posts and wanting people to come to them from their social media posts, any advice I would give. I would say the the number one thing you can do is to be very specific in the content that you post on social media. So let’s say that someone has told you or a few people have told you that they struggle with their weight. Or let’s say they struggle with self control when it comes to eating habits. So make a post. Exactly and only about struggling with.
I’m losing my train of thought struggling with self control, when it comes to eating.
Nothing else, just make it about that. That’s it make the call to action about that. No matter what it is, if you’re a you know, if you’re what other type of coach would there be if you’re a relationship coach.
Just make a post about how to attract the right kind of person. So don’t make like I said, Don’t get too general. Don’t talk to everybody in your audience. Think about one person one need and just talk about that in each one of your posts. Yeah, love it. Yeah, pick one thing doesn’t need to be 12 problems in one post. I love that. Okay, so, um, how can our health coach nation audience find you and connect with you.
Um, so you can follow me on Instagram, I’m really active on here. It’s just at Mia dot copywriter. Um, you can also like to talk about brand voice, I do have a free brand voice guided sheet that takes you through that process of finding your own voice. So you can just go to my bio, and it’s there at the link in my bio. And I would say those are the two best ways just connect with me here on Instagram. dm, say hi, download that free guide. That’s the best way. Love it. I’m not mentioned health, co creation and maybe meal will have a little something for you. And, Mia, I really appreciate you for coming on today. I loved some of the tips that you give. But
it’s so it I think people underestimate the value of having the following skill sets, marketing, copywriting, which is part of marketing. And, and like I think that everything in life is related to sales. And I think a lot of things, you know, to help people like I think people over miss the fact that if people can’t read your stuff, and if people don’t remember it, and you’re not helping you’re not served making the biggest impact you want to make because it’s not landing. So I really think what you do is important, and thanks so much for coming on the show today. Of course I’m so glad to be here. Thanks for having me here. I hope we’ll stay in touch and everybody here will stay in touch as well. Yep. Alright.
About Mia Kercher
Mia Kercher is a copywriter for coaches, writing sleaze-free sales copy that helps you scale their biz while working less. She’s on a mission to help coaches catapult their impact to make the world a healthier, happier place, where people believe in their dreams and make them happen. She blended her background in linguistics, teaching, and writing to found Evoke Writing: crafting launch and funnel copy that stands out and sells your offers to the right people
- Complimentary Business Consult
- Health Coach Nation: Marketing, Business, & Mindset for Health Coaches
You can find Mia on her website here.
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